The Emotional Intelligence Livestream #11.5


Emotions & Racism:

Dialogue on emotional intelligence and how we can be part of increasing equity


Rather than a planned conversation, this livestream was intended as a real-time dialogue about our feelings and what we’re experiencing today.

The dialogue touched on difficult topics and big feelings — and our shared commitment to learn to have this kind of conversation… and the power of emotional intelligence as a toolset to build a more aware, intentional, and connected response.

Exploring EMOTIONS on racial inequality: Can emotional intelligence END racism? We are joining together to share emotions on racial inequality and systemic injustice against Black people in the US and beyond. We invite members of the Six Seconds Emotional Intelligence Community and anyone to join us in this space for compassionate dialogue to explore the idea: Can emotional intelligence end racism?

Transcript (un-edited)

hello everyone thank you for joining us today live it’s one day after our latest live stream but it was important for us to come together again today to talk about something that’s happening in our society and we want to be part of the discussion it’s coming together as a community of the emotional intelligence practitioners and I am excited for the conversation and I’m going to introduce today’s moderator Joshua Freedman

Thank you Tom and I’m grateful that we can have this opportunity to be here and I’d like to go ahead and ask our panelists to come on the screen and we’re gonna start out by thinking a little bit about what we want to achieve today and what I’d like to do is start by asking each of the panelists just to give us a kind of one-line introduction and to tell us what’s one thing you hope we can achieve today and those of you here on the chat I would like to ask you to do the same thing

Molly can we start with you?
I am a New Yorker but I’m based right now in Nairobi and in regards to this conversation or about that I’d really love is if we could kind of create clarity I know there’s a lot of people that maybe have different opinions and I think it’s kind of just important to have this space really understand what’s going on thank you

I’m Peruvian but I’ve been living in the United States for 20 years and to me it’s important to find a space within us and with these are skills that we practice of emotional intelligence to find understanding to find empathy to look for more information and to trying to be a voice for people who doesn’t have that the chairs

Hi everyone, I’m Steve Proudman I’m in Wisconsin’s got an hour north of Milwaukee and I was intrigued by the invite to talk about how emotional intelligence can impact this racism division that seems to be plaguing our country that the rest of the world so I’m hoping that we have a real heartfelt conversation it kind of share varying perspectives
without the expectation that we’re going to solve anything; we’re gonna learn from each other

My name is Jim Vaive I’m one of the regional Network directors for North America and six seconds and what I would like to do is something that my friend Eric Pennington suggested and that is to help me understand helped me understand this situation of racism in a different way and then take action

I’m a proud practitioner at six seconds a preferred partner and as a black man I realized how important the tools of emotional intelligence are in supporting me to survive I believe that the the language that we’ve created through six seconds lends itself to survival and thrive and especially in this chaotic time as a black man and it’s given me some space to breathe where there’s not been a lot of space I want to share

I’m Josh Freedman and one of the founders of six seconds and I want to share a couple of the comments from the chat and people are coming in from all over the world and wonders comment really hit my long as what I wanted who’s that I want and I

talked about that a little later

so before we jump in I would like to

take a moment and ask what are some

ground rules that we can put into place

to help us achieve these things and

Michael given that this is what you you

do professionally maybe you could start

by sharing with us some recommendations

yeah and again even in you asking me to

be a part of that I think as we’re

talking today helping folks know that

collaborative collaboration is so

critical and understanding the

challenges that we’re facing so the fort

ground rules I’d like to call them

community guides that I like to use as

we’re talking today to after speaking to

use I statements I think it’s very very

important to use I statements because it

could easily be misconstrued that any of

the six of us you know what any one of

our ethnic groups are feeling but so

using I statements is critical and for

this conversation

the second one is leaning into

discomfort inevitably because we’re

human beings from different places and

different understandings that we’re

going to have some discomfort and so as

colleagues I would hope that we would

lean into discomfort secondly thirdly

for us to be to accept non closure we’re

gonna start a conversation be together

for about 45 minutes or so even maybe an

hour in that time we’re not gonna solve

the challenges of society however we can

become a little bit I became developed a

connective tissue around us so accept

non closure and the one that I treasure

so deeply that I learned in my diversity

practitioner works from dr. Billy Vaughn

was be soft on people and hard on

barriers be soft on people and hard on

barriers those are what I would offer

Josh as we talked today

I love those I’ve written those down

does that work for other panelists works

for me as well yeah beautiful I wanted

to just mention Janet Miller Evans is

trying to join us by phone and hopefully

she’ll be able to get in at some point

here as well have another panelist this

is so Janet I hope it works I I’d like

to ask everyone who’s here in the chat

but we’re not we didn’t plan this as a

as a show like our other panels we

really planned this as a conversation

and just talking about leaning into

discomfort for me going live with a

hundred people watching and having a

conversation and having no plan is my

first step of leaning in to discount

well doing this at all what’s my first

step of leaning into this comfort and

then doing it like this is my second

step so I’d like to just ask everyone

who’s watching here that this is

something I would hope we can co-create

and that we can share with each other

and ask questions to each other I did to

think about in the shower this morning I

didn’t think about a couple questions

because I couldn’t now myself that I I

did think about a couple questions just

in case but what it was hoping is the

six of us and 101 of you watching right

now would actually lead the conversation

and is there some video as a question

that they would like to ask as a

starting point

I can start I think you might go I was

about to break Josh didn’t I because

it’s the conversation I want to start by

saying to the folks who are listening

that I think Josh are being kind when

you say that there’s not a lot of

structure because the EQ framework is a

profound structure and it brings us

together so even as we talked about me

facilitating versus you I really was

sharing that because of the come there’s

so many things happening for me that for

me to have the clarity of thought to

bring the group in would be difficult

and I think an American society that’s

so rare for a black man to be able to

share that so I think definitely I think

we want to I want to make sure we’re

continue to share that but the question

is I wonder how when white folks are

folks who are on this call and even

callers or people who are watching when

you saw the the utter annihilation and

killing of these important men black men

amat are very slowly George what was

happening for you because I know what

was happening for me

well for me you know it’s a I would I

felt sick in the stomach I feel

incredible anger and I do diversity work

I have illness 15 years in the corporate

world you know as a white guy I don’t

have that same relationship with police

officers so though for me I’m I’m sort

of separated from that fear that ongoing

current terroristic reality that black

men black women face other people of

color but to watch it to watch a murder

life was horrifying and to continue it

and I was with my kids I have a couple

daughters home from the pandemic and and

you know we were in tears it was

terrible I have to be terrible and as a

white guy

I’m largely that’s not gonna happen to

me yesterday I was up north on Wisconsin

stopped by a police officer for speeding

not a very nice interaction with that

individual you know I got a warning I

didn’t even get a ticket that’s not the

experience that a lot of like like

friends and other black folks I’ve

worked with share when they share

stories of their interactions with the

police officer so I was horrified deeply

saddened and grieve and also anger

moving into wanting to like I do you for

the house that galvanized money work

that I care passionately about now and

how do I want to come to that forward

even more passionately this tapas I was

feeling Michael a white-hot rage I I was

feel angry but I just wanted to punch

the wall

and I’m I guess I was seeing a picture

on the newsfeed recently where there’s a

sober guy who was younger than me and he

says I’m 66 and I’m still protesting

this crap and I and I just had to think

back to the marches that I didn’t think

during the sixties going what happened

or what would happen and what is it that

we need to be you know how to not have

to be protesting this and then

sixty years I’m angry

I I think that emotion for me is disgust

and I found it just incredibly hard to

even watch 30 seconds of that video and

I haven’t watched the whole thing

non-stop I’ve only watched little bits

of it because each time I start watching

it I just felt like I’m gonna throw up

I’m sorry I just wanted to say I’m also

putting up on the screen people’s

answers Molly please sorry I don’t

interact um for me this is incredibly


um there’s like there’s it’s almost I

don’t wanna say rage but it’s it’s

disappointment its frustration its

despair it’s incredibly infuriating to

see this continually happen and see this

happen to people that look like me and

to see a lot of people don’t like not

care um to see the collective outrage

right now it almost feels supportive but

at the same time it’s it’s traumatizing

you see constantly like black bodies

black videos of people dying and you

never see that of other races and this

is happening constantly and there’s been

real outrage about it I feel like in my

community I feel like this is constantly

something I’m hearing and I’m glad that

we’re here but I’m also extremely hurt

and I feel real stress in my body

so I’m infuriated I think that’s the

emotion I would leave but yeah for me

it’s very similar I

furries I mean I felt that in my ride

with disgust and it keeps happening over

and over and one part of me also feels

guilty because in a way our voice is I

feel that voice is perpetrating this I

come from Latin America I come from our

country that gives these structures in

place so all my life I live with this

subtle racism and then being on the

other end and seeing all this injustice

and this abuse of power really got me

very upset and I think that one of the

reasons why I got into EQ West was to

try to find a soft side of change when I

was younger I used to believe and really

need perhaps more violent ways to do

things and I thought I were very

justified but then the the EQ work has

led me into the softer side of changing

hearts and changing paradigms and

meeting with curiosity but the dusting

takes away from the fact that I’m

curious and every time I remember that I

get a rate it’s not it it’s not better

as a big old high I think there’s

another piece for me which is about but

in what the bill said about like

helplessness and an rage and also I

don’t I feel like I’ve done a lot of

work in this space of trying to make it

possible for people to have

conversations like this but there’s this

piece of me that’s like what have I been

doing for the last 24 years like this

isn’t working

I know I asked the question in hearing

the responses it’s almost it’s it’s like

my wife summon an interracial marriage

and my wife really I got started in this

phase of it because of my wife I was two

weeks or three weeks ago on a call she

came in with such emotion that I’ve

never seen before and she showed me the

phones have you seen this it was the

picture of Ahmad Aubry and I didn’t know

that the their number of killings of

black and brown men are so vast that I

didn’t even know and because of that my

relationship it shipped me awake and as

I talked with my brothers I have two

elder brothers and we were talking about

this this sense of numbness that black

men not all but just in our family the

tube three of us have to have because if

I as a black man and walking around

afraid all the time I won’t get anything

done and so the this this feeling of not

even being disembodied to look at Floyd

and to see that he the same age as me it

just when I got from being a numb it

just made me go like you Josh like Tim

like others what have we been doing but

I know that we’ve been doing something

because we have a form like this this

this form wouldn’t have been available

before so it’s a mix of pain and hope in

so Michael as a white girl on one of the

things that I have to betrayed myself on

is to know that I don’t understand what

it is in you as a black man are the only

grip there’s a way that I can understand

it and I have to be willing to be open

to possibility I have to listen to you

and desire that in order to change my

preconceived ideas to in a we won’t be

the only two talking Jim and so for

those who are logging in Jim is my

regional director in America for

preferred partner

and as a white man he’s said you know

you know if you could see him he’s a

tall guy you know he’s a burly dude and

he’s like and I’m kind of this slender

little brother and he’s like I want to

help you and I’m like I want to get help

and we would say that for the heck and

forth like two years and then this past

year just like I want to help you and I

said I want to be helped but I need you

to understand how I need help and with

what you did Jim is your ears open to

that not to me but to that reality I

mean I think when we’re talking about

these kind of chaotic experiences in

America we need white folks not just to

hear but then to say what what is that

what are the systems that I’m supporting

aware are unaware that I can begin to

pull my foot off the lever some and

that’s what you’ve done and I I’m I’m

eternally grateful so I’m gonna just

talk about polarization for a second and

I think one of the problems that we have

in our world is that we move very

quickly into making people bad and we

move very quickly into this divisiveness

and I grew up in Berkeley in the 1970s

which was a very weird time in place and

I grew up being taught you should be

colorblind and that you know even

talking about somebody’s skin color is

racism and I feel like that’s been a

struggle for me to unlearn that and to

not see being able to say like Michael

has challenged me multiple times in this

a very gentle way but we’re teaching

them together and he keeps inviting me

to sort of speak from the point of view

of saying well do you see are you saying

that as a white man and I have resisted

seeing my like I I mean I know like I

tell him

weiter but I don’t like that’s not my

identity and I realize that’s also part

of my privilege is that I don’t have to

think about my race as or my skin color

as identity and I’m wondering if others

how you’ve kind of grappled with that

idea of like is your is your skin color

your race or your identity or how does

that work for you Molly we’re having

trouble hearing you where you’re

suffering from the internet ta’kenya

challenges at the moment I think can you

hear me now or not yeah try again yes


computer and data issues um let me know

if it breaks up again but basically this

isn’t something that you’re taught as a

child that you are different you know

like and there’s nothing wrong with

being different but there’s a way that

you need to interact with the cops

there’s a way that you interact with

people and like the idea of color not

existing or not seeing color becomes

unsafe especially for black men like you

have to recognize that people I mean

even as a black woman I speak for me

like I’m a tall black woman people could

see that as a threat people could see me

as different when I enter an interview

or a conversation I mean people have

different stereotypes and associations

and I think a lot of that has to do with

not only where you were raised about how

you were raised

um and for me moving forward I’m hyper

conscious of of what it means

a black woman of what it means to have a

black partner of what it means to

possibly have if I have children a black

child how I’m going to interact with

them but it’s never ever crossed my mind

think that I wouldn’t have that

conversation with a black child need to

know how to interact there certain

social settings and it does boil down to

privilege I think you did hit that on

the head Josh well where I come from

we’re never colorblind

we’ve been reminded since they were born

who we are in society and when I came to

the states and I had all these friends

in college telling me why friends I’m

all over and I happened you do not see

color color is part of your I mean also

who you are your background it tells you


it adds right but I always had this and

very prescient here so in my case being

Hispanic I know you know this but when

you feel these questioners they ask you

if you have Hispanic heritage but then

there’s a line that says white mark here

if you’re white but none is Hispanic

yes so it’s like Hispanic is not a

raised being white is just a caller you

know in that in all these it’s more

melatonin less melatonin that’s if it

doesn’t say about your race I mean and

and and I feel that in a way of Believe

It or Not microaggressions to that I

felt they were so and Warren you know

people like oh you’re karubian

okay you don’t look like Peruvian so

what are you expecting you know and I’ve

been living with this and I cannot

imagine how is for a person of color to

have to go through this all their lives

and influence me really it’s just that

Michael and so many here so many things

if I can keep them both Fiorella the

signing the checking the box is so

problematic when when it comes time to

teaching that because one of my

challenges is that someone will say

Michael did you read this book and it’s

probably amazing story of someone and

I’m going I haven’t read that book but

have you talked to me because there’s a

good chance that some things are that is

happening in one of those

actors is happening in my life and I

think it’s very it’s a difficult it’s

almost like getting cold water and

waking up when you go wow how did

something like that happen like we all

talked about you know I’m enraged I’m so

thankful people white folks dianella

said Michael how are you feeling about

trayvon martin about any of these

terrible despicable horrible acts

against black men and i said you know

and that’s surprised I’m not surprised

what I am is I’m thankful if there’s any

if there’s a way to say that I’m

thankful that white people see it

because one I’m not alone in seeing that

this is a problem and now since it is a

problem we need to collectively say I

need what power do you have to help with

this because our history our country has

a history of even if I see it if my

white colleague of frein our person

doesn’t see it that level of power is

not attitude in my reality and so I’ve

been heartened by that and even to see

Mali to here it’s none of you can

understand what it’s like for a black

man to hear a black woman say that so

when you return to your technology was

not working on Mali with bated breath I

was waiting because too often we are

pitted against each other and we’re not

the the woundedness is real so again I I

think again just the framework that we

use for six seconds has really created a

lifeline in my introduction to six

seconds when we were in Italy for the

master class couldn’t believe it you

know I was probably one of the few

people of color there and I was like I

believe in this six seconds thing but

there’s not a lot of folks of color

around here and then Josh had the nerve

to say well we want everybody to do

these morning videos and I was like oh

here you know all of these August group

of people looking at me and the only

thing I could think about was to talk

about my experience of what it felt like

to be encountered by white folks and how

awareness helped me to communicate

enhancing emotional and literacy

enhancing emotional literacy gave me the

words to say when you say that to me it

makes me it reminds me

a time when my father was discriminated

against as opposed to me just fighting

it gave me words it’s and ironically

it’s the thing that has been taken from

black people for a long long time words

so the six seconds model I tell you not

because I’ve gone through years of

training and I need years more

it is a tool Josh I’ll stop there

Michael thank you I want to come back to

this in a minute because Michael and

I’ve had a lot of conversations about

being able to lift up our voices yeah I

want to ask everybody in the chat and

then we’ll go to Jim and then come back

to this we’re talking about our own

understanding of our racial identities I

think that’s what we’re talking about

and how our how we’ve learned to label

ourselves or not and how we’ve learned

to talk about that or not and I want to

ask all of you if you’re willing to

share you know do you know how do you

see yourself what is your ethnicity

which box do you track how do you feel

about that when you check that box or

you’re asked to check that box Jim let’s

you had a comment and then we’ll come

back to you I uh I had parents in

Detroit that moved us to the inner city

in Detroit and after Steve Martin Luther

King speak and they did me a great

service and at the same time I had to

learn some hard realities because I got

beat up every day by black folks because

my brother and I care were the only

white folks on the streets and I

desperately wanted to fit in so I did

everything I could to be black and I’m

being serious I struggled I did

everything like

to be blind and there’s a harsh reality

I’m not blogging I’ll never be live I’ll

never understand what it means to be

blood but it doesn’t mean that I can’t

love an open heart and be receptive and

realize that we are different and that’s


they don’t people don’t have to be me

and I don’t have to be them and imagine

trying to do this at the age of 14 and

trying to understand why I was being

treated the way I was and in trying to

understand that and it gave me just a

very very very very very small

understanding of what black people

thought they’re very very very very

small not even who faintin universe I

just wanted to share a couple of the

comments my god

donor who saw these but while you were

talking and there were a couple comments

that I wanted to just I liked

and on this question about the the box

we have a range of answers

and one thing that I that I find with

the box at least for the nothing reality

is that this aspect of the whiteness of

being white as being better it’s been so

ingrained in our subconscious that even

if we don’t want to we don’t

self-identified as with any fighter

slapping that will have nothing to do

with indigenous population so a year ago

I read a DNA test and I found out that

49 of my heritage who went South

American and Wow it was like you know me

it ground in a different perspective

it’s just because this is love and I

thought everybody should do that because

it’s out it’s wide open and I think it’s

important that we appreciate that

all 500 Mills of colonialism has put

this in our brains and even inside our

families we have these issues we have

kids that feel less because they’re

darker we as family relatives the

country house will say oh beautiful kid

is blown

m39 and the other kids are nothing at


so we’re doing this stir in our families

so I want to come back to this thing

about voice Michael and being able to

talk about our own experiences and you

said something to me that you know every

time I think about it it breaks my heart

and you know I suspect to some degree

it’s true for all of us but I think for

some of us it’s much more tense and you

used the words yesterday about keeping

your nose down and needing to be

invisible yeah

and so I was after I said it I was

trying to remember the exact thing that

I said and I remember so I I went to

all-black school growing up my parents

have a small Christian school that is

still in existence

I was called Mount Pleasant Academy I

believe that my dad started it and you’d

have to ask him to say in part not only

was he agitated but he wanted to support

my brothers and so my brother went to

Howard University I think I went to

Fordham University was Bromley white so

when I went to Howard I was like whoa

this is a mecca like all of these

chocolate people as a yes why didn’t I

know about this before but the gift that

I received from my elder brother was

connecting with some of his fraternity

and and just other brothers and one of

them said to me in conversations that I

heard you know keep your head down right

below the radar so if you’re phenomenal

don’t tell everybody because if you’re

phenomenal then this supreme idea of

whiteness will tear that down I mean I

don’t know if I took it wholeheartedly

but I certainly have learned and I think

in many many black communities he

learned not to not to talk too much

about yourself dr. jorde the group

phenomenal a person wrote the book

called post-traumatic slave syndrome she

talks about the impact of slavery on

today’s African and African American

folks and how sometimes if you you know

your son Johnny is doing good you go

that boy he’s nice he’s no good because

it’s slavery if you said that Johnny was

good the slave master would pick him to

put to the hardest task or make him

suffer them also the idea of staying

below the radar has been with me

subconsciously and I think it is it’s in

faith perspective it’s been a yoke or

curse that has had to be broken and I

again folks may think I’m really trying

to teach six seconds I probably promise

you I’m not along with the other

training that I’ve had over these 15

years that tool is like that the goal is

to have a a practical thing to go what

do I need to be aware of there’s a

system that’s trying to crush me okay

what options do I need to what are the

options in that I can go this way I can

go that way I can go the other what will

I do and it allows me in my fast-paced

existence to be able to do that quickly

and I can only believe Josh that my

my forefathers and mothers and brothers

and sisters were using a quick process

to find out they didn’t know the

geography but they have to go what do I

need to be aware of what are the options

and what will I do

and and to have a a person to think

about that to have the foresight to

think about that and to know it is very

powerful so it’s sad to be reminded of

that it’s operating under the radar but

I have since renounced that and I’m glad

about it yeah and it’s a process right

like all our patterns it’s a process we

get caught up in these old ways of

reacting especially when we’re in the

deep distress that we’re in and then

reminding ourselves wait I am not that

I’m not at that place anymore mom do you

never need to add about this topic of I

think here you had your hand up about

being able to speak our emotions speak

our experience Molly last you mom all


in regards to your experience and what

you’re feeling um I understand what

you’re saying my thought like I did

I think as I fly the fools I have some

emotional intelligence the West hey I

struggle to be completely perfect

um I’m able to recognize cousins I’m

able to place them but when I find a

thing goes when I try to think of how to

express that and how to relate it it

becomes more of a tour because I don’t

feel like I need to be the one to fetch

it a lot of times like there’s already

the burden of having to deal with trauma

and then I just feel like this is not

something that just happened this is

like a whole lives this is like in the

head and this is something that like as

it or as growing up or at university

there’s an Ultima situation that with

hello where you’re being reinforced that

you have to protect yourself that you’re

not safe when it comes to the cluster

authorities and it’s because a lot of

the type of fear of how you look and

that’s deeply inherited people ingrained

in people pardon me so in terms of

feelings and how I’m processing that I’m

having a hard time applying a really

useful school I think the best thing

done that was just trying because it’s a

very unique all of us mostly in the

middle of the pit yeah yeah we are so

disconnected and there’s such big things

and for you Molly being very far away

from your family and I mentioned it’s

there’s a lot of magnifying the ears I

will say the research but it is

Oh mommy we’re losing you again so I’m

gonna ask you to stop there for a second

and wow if we can get more data stored

up Janet welcome we’re talking about

learning how to talk and learning how to

express ourselves and maybe you could

just give a quick introduction and share

whatever you would like to I was able to

hear quite a bit before I was able to

see now technology will fill us at the

most inopportune times but I thank you

for allowing me to be a part of the

discussion and as I was listening I am a

certified ETH CC coats with acceptance

and as I left corporate America after

almost 30 years I said to myself what

would have propelled you even further

and I knew the frustrations that I was


I knew the emotions around my

experiences but having been always told

either you’re too emotional or don’t be

emotional or when situations happen my

opinion was not asked everyone around me

was asked about me I said what what

could it have helped and some somehow I

came upon emotional intelligence and I

did a lot of study and a lot of work

before I decided where I would invest my

time and my dollars and I did to you six

seconds and I did come to understand

that emotions are really the basis of

everything and there’s a piece I’m


racism is emotions and the challenge

that we have been talking about it is

the emotional aspect of it and our

emotions are coming from different

places and in my

until we can talk about and use the

process of naming recognizing patterns

consequence of linking and empathy until

we can use all of the tools of six

seconds to to brave through the

discussion of race and how it got to be

where he is in America real progress

won’t be made because we haven’t talked

and address the root cause racism in

America I in talking about this it’s

very difficult for me I grew up in the

south right across the line when we’re

Emmett Till was murdered and I was a

very young child going through this and

my mom being at Martin Luther King’s

last speech in Memphis Tennessee hearing

Walter Cronkite say Martin Luther King

had been shot dead I mean it was just

like one students to know and be right

down the road or in the road I mean this

is Tennessee next door to Mississippi

where Lucius were hung from trees and

you see those images and for me to sleep

a man replace a noose with Annie has

traumatized me I was even wondering if I

was going through PTSD I have had the

moments I live in a suburb that is I

would say 2% African American my

daughter came home from New York where

she was living it for the coronavirus

now she’s afraid to go out of the door

because she’s gonna die I’m a pirate so

she’s gonna die cause somebody’s going

to stake her for being in their yard

trying to leave she didn’t have the

right look on her face because black

people are sassy it’s just traumatized


the one thing I say and out in kind I

mean monopolize with time but thanks

reform but is III can’t see your name

but the Peruvian is from Peru via spoke

the one thing is we cannot then our

discussant of race and I hope that and

you have your discussions of race put

all the races together a story of the

black American from America whose

descendants of slaves is different from

the immigrant story they are all very

important and we need to be standing up

against any oppression of people but to

put the storage together lessens the

oppressions of people just and so that’s

what I wanted to end with this and this

is a tough discussion and I will address

I am so thankful to be an emotional

telogen coach and practitioner because

we are the people who can lead the

discussion because we have done the

difficult work we have not done the

difficult work with emotions and race

but emotional intelligence and the

practicing of it and listening to

everyone’s story with empathy no matter

what its story is it’s what’s going to

help move this discussion forward and

not push it back under the ground as

soon as the funeral or those symptoms

happens the work begins after mr. Floyd

is put to rest and after the police have

been convicted and their sentences meted

we cannot let the discussion guy there

were a lot of comments in the chat where

you were talking Janet and then just

want to just make sure you saw couple of


people hearing you and and yes that’s

our call to action is emotional

intelligence practitioners and

professional coaches it’s not met this

guy Steve it’s what are you and then


uh Thank You Janet nice to meet you you

know as a white male I think my my

experience in working with other white

men because I have Steve no I’m not I

know I’m on as a white male and working

with other white men because I wanna say

can you hear me I can’t hear you and

sometimes this software does this and if

you just put your earphones on you you

should be able to hear great so it’s

Phoebe you’re okay I can hear you go


but if Michael if you can’t hear just

quit your folks under yeah I want to say

that you know to me of my experience in

the conversations I’ve had of difficult

conversations with other white folks the

the fear of treading into the

conversation around race stems from I

think their own discomfort in saying the

wrong thing and being offensive and you

know talk about colorblindness Josh

earlier to me colorblindness is is a

rough it it’s it’s impossible to be :

you can think you’re colored one coming

from a place of good intent where you

don’t want to see race but in fact race

is a social construct and visually there

is difference so we have a sameness pair

of in the paragraph the same this

difference but there’s this notion of

the yeah we’re all human we’re all the

same and you have the experiences of

people that are different but they from

my group my white male group and we’re

the dominant group and we look at those

pictures of the police officers it’s

mostly guys that look like me white man

and you can go all the way back 500

years and trace the history of

oppression of whites and what they’ve

done to folks of color around the world

that’s not my fault yet my

responsibility is to try to help me and

others understand if in my group

understand the impact the legacy and the

impact that has on those that are

different every day and they’re within

that there’s a deep well of empathy that

can be sort of tapped the whites versus

blowing it off and saying you know I saw

him seen color I’m not racist

I don’t want to talk about this that’s

the privilege we have my group has to

say hey this is your problem you figure

it out wait

racism is a way persons problem in my

opinion because we’re the ones that

group lies have perpetuated and continue

to perpetuate the pain on others see if

I just talk to you for one second yeah I

tell you – I’d like your photos there

there were two works that’s better okay

um yeah you know again I think moving

making progress is gonna be dependent on

the ability for people to come to the

table in conversations and real

conversations and really to deeply

listen to what you have all shared and

others have to share without the

expectation that you’re gonna fit you’re

gonna teach me and my group you know how

to solve the tiredness I’ve heard from

folks of color is that you want that

forever and it’s not your responsibility

it’s I think the burden lies within my

group white folks – really because of it

in the corporate world we sit in most of

the positions of leadership so white men

that I’ve worked with who have the

courage to step into the realm of race

discussions or any other dimension of

diversity discussions without having all

the answers before they open their mouth

is a is an oxymoron because typically

the assumption is if I’m in a leadership

position I should know what the answer

is and I can come to the table and tell

everybody what to do this is a long-term

process that you know it’s a condition

to manage over time and I think it’s a

dutiful responsible

of any leader any white person – as

uncomfortable as it may get sit with

that pain and try to try to understand

it without defending deflecting or

negating or minimizing what that

experience is for others to your point

that’s a part of the emotional

intelligence that needs to be worked

through folks just understanding

emotional intelligence and having mainly

emotions and your patterns because you

said a lot of things there that have

been very helpful for me and thank you

for sharing that piece of that because

you said a lot of things such as it’s no

it’s our problem it’s almost like the

problem has been created not by the

people who have been oppressed but the

people who have been oppressed

everything to solve the problem and

that’s where the issue lies it’s not

they don’t own the problem so to solve

it they can’t because they aren’t in

that seat however as you said what

emotional intelligence will allow us to

do is to hear each person’s story

because each person’s story is valuable

to them and the story of a white male is

a white male story he grew up just like

we did from a child and was taught a lot

of things or not taught a lot of things

and so unpacking all of that as you said

it’s gonna take time and it’s going to

be uncomfortable I would hope that it is

not painful but it is uncomfortable to

admit I am angry when I see a black

person I don’t know why and that’s the

work that has to be done and we forget

and so thank you mm-hmm Michael let’s go

back to you and have a lot of thoughts

going through my head and a lot of

feelings from what you both have just

shared yeah I was thinking about when

you showed me a comment that someone

else shared about you know

being vulnerable on on screen that is a

really that’s very new honest and I’ve

had I’ve been really blessed to have

some good training around many things

and one of the things because it’s all

my racism and emotions one of the things

that I learned through six seconds was

this idea that by Tears I remember Susan

Stillman one of my first teachers in New

York City

she said that tears were data and I was

like what crying so it kind of it pushed

against the system of being a strong man

to hold it in as opposed to saying that

I think there’s nothing sweeter than the

the tears of a black man I think there’s

nothing sweeter that is and stuff but

the the depth of what is coming from

them so when I think about the tears my

hope is this idea of tools and Molly

talked about when you said you’re

looking for a tool I was I was you know

checking my own self in it I think one

of the things that is helpful is that

there are many tools my faith is the

foundational tool for all that I do if I

try to say any other tool before that I

would be in big trouble but forced to

find different tools and then to begin

to share that because when I think about

you Molly I’m thinking about how can i

connect with you because the number of

young women of color that can benefit

from your experience in nairobi kenya

and the number of white girls that can

benefit in the number of white boys and

black boys so it’s this whole exchange

that is so powerful to say as jenny just

talked about the experience of a white

man is real I don’t doubt that there’s

pain the question that is how do we all

begin to process what ours is and create

space for that I think what is I’ve

experienced is that my pain is less as a

black man so let’s not pay attention to

it and I think the last thing I would

say is that I have a very dear colleague

who is korean-american and we actually

did a Instagram live together they must

am Kim and we were talking about what

must it feel like for

a person of Asian heritage to see black

folks suffer and know their own

suffering but to go my suffering is not

as important so I’ll I’ll ship mine up

that process destroys us all and so the

goal of having tools is to say what’s

really coming up for you thinking about

your ethnicity and your gender because I

know working in higher ed for many years

I loved higher ed in some many times

you’re not really able to say who you

are where you come from

even if you’ve written a book so the

tools are so powerful and I’m thankful

that we get a chance to connect those

two today I just wanted to share one of

my reactions when you know and Steve was

talking about it’s our responsibility to

solve this problem and I think I hadn’t

really thought about it in that way

before and in fact in the past I think

you all saw that I shared you know when

I first heard this term white privilege

I had a pretty defensive reaction and

that defensiveness still comes up

sometimes for me and that’s a pattern

that I’m working on and there’s this

storyline in my head which is what’s not

me you know this yeah it was white

people but it’s not me and it’s not even

my ancestors coming from Jewish

ancestors in Eastern Europe and so then

I get into this storyline of like well

this isn’t my problem and I’m not proud

of that statement but I think it’s

taking ownership of my part in this is a

hard thing to do and it’s something that

I want to learn to do yeah and the

paradox if it’s not my fault I’m

responsible Josh I think I you know I

can see where I personally don’t feel

like I’m out

being agreed what he’s saying something


Fiorella where you think something sorry

technology trouble go ahead to see if I

can hear you just use that notion Joshua

I think what is that responsibility that

that or what I can we do what’s the

responsibility I can take to own some of

what I’m not responsible for but that’s

been perpetuated over time and what can

I do in my day-to-day interactions with

all the people I engage with that

doesn’t perpetuate doesn’t you know

sustain what’s happened but actually

starts to rectify and heal some of it so

that’s where I think the EQ tools the

model for me personally it becomes

really helpful it has been really

helpful in my family interactions and

the you know day-to-day interactions I

have in my small community and certainly

in my work I was going to say that for

me instead of not seeing a system my

problem or not something inherit that

that’s something that I have to live

with I think that coming from Latin

America I see it pretty much as my

responsibility even though I didn’t

clean because we have this mix of people

and we have people that came to our

countries as slaves we have the

indigenous people and we have the

colonizers and storm here so for me I

think that my responsibility as have

been born in the position that I was

born it’s to help be the voice for

others and that’s how I feel and in this

country I haven’t really found that

outlet because I always get with that

wall oh no this is not my problem this

happened you know 400 years ago so thank

you for you Molly so we’re running close

to our end here so let’s get some final

comments from those rabbits sure Molly

you have a final comment sure sure um

firstly thank you for you know have

platform enabling most important


I think we just skim the surface frankly

and I think the conversation is starting

for a lot of people there’s more work

that needs to get done frankly and

there’s a lot that people need to you

know learn whether it’s how to become an

ally whether it’s how to support whether

it’s black people finding resources to

handle trauma and pain that we you know

it’s not the easiest thing in the black

community therapy is not always as well

accept it but I think this is important

and this is a start and anyone here can

take this and start to move forward and

just know that like this is not where

the work ends after this hopefully the

after the police officer get convicted

hopefully that’s not the end there’s a

whole systemic problem and we need to

start if this is where we start today

then we’re just moving forward today so

I’ll leave it on that Molly and I want

to thank you for your advocacy to put

this in focus for me and to help me pay

attention so appreciate that Jim so I

was thinking about what Steve said and

something that I’ve noticed in myself

recently is that I tend to not help

people with I have emotional

intelligence training and I I listen to

some people make racial statements and I

don’t do anything to help them reframe

it and one of the Warner commitments

that I’m making here public learning is

that regardless of what the cost is for

me I am going to help people reframe

racial statements period from here on

out thank you Jim Steve final comment

yeah I you know to me the empathy piece

is really critical I don’t think there’s


limit to how much empathy we can have

and I think I would hope that more

people grow this the empathy side more

people in my group white folks and and

it’s really reflecting and engage with

the communities they live in to sort of

do what Jim said make some commitments

that you can do on a day-to-day basis

because this won’t end I mean I know

it’s we individually cannot resolve all

this but I think collectively it’s gonna

take that effort to just continue to be

mindful of what is it

when I hear something I need to stop and

stop it and as Jim said whatever that

cost might be to me you know to me the

cost is irrelevant it’s the right thing

to do and we need to do it I mean I have

privilege to do it and I’m gonna I have

done it I have lost friends and so it

goes I’m gonna continue to do what I

believe is the right thing to do in

support of everybody I just wanted to

bring in some more of the comments from

others who are here and say I really

appreciate you engaging with us I know

this is not the ideal forum for a

conversation and rather we could all be

in a room together and talk but I

appreciate you engaging in this way and

being here and being present and I want

to ask Janet if you have a final thought

and I think Michael is still here

Michael’s maybe not so here okay so tune

in to have a final thought to share my

final thought is that we have pulled

back the curtain we’ve shown the light

and now we have to continue to follow

through with that path and it’s going to

take a lot of discussion this stems

around the basis of racism in America

and particularly the treatment of black

Americans and I would just say that we

asked ourselves inside it’s two sides of

the street

the size of racist practices not the

people a racist it’s racist practices

and policies and laws and you stand on

that side of the street or you stand on

the sky she says I’m not going to be

complicit and with every action well

make things there every part of the

action you eliminate and eradicate

racist behavior it’s a positive step so

thanks for the opportunity to take that

first step on this journey today –

appreciate it

I’m really grateful for you while being

here and I feel like I’ve my heart and

mind have been open in new ways from

this conversation I hope those of you

who’ve been to participating in chat

have also felt something wake up in you

and those of you who are here on the

panel I just want to say again

appreciate you being here Michael I know

you had to go but I appreciate you being

here as well and I look forward to

continuing this conversation thank you

Andy and Tom we’ll give you the last

word hello I don’t I don’t know what

else to say to add to the conversation

that as we said we just scratch the

surface of it what can i what I can say

is that watching this today made me made

me cry cuz I was four I think it was the

time that I was the most proud of of

being part of this organization and

hearing how there’s more things we can

do like make can make a huge impact and

I think if we can provide any support

and any help in framing the discussion

and helping people understand more

that’s same valuable so thank you for

being here to your chat thank you for

being here on the panel it’s in

your presence is very important



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